[Andrew Hall DC]

Hi Charlene,

As you know, I’m really doing VERY well.  But that doesn’t mean I still don’t have a cough.  It’s better than when I was first diagnosed with IPF, but I still have it.  I live in the mountains in California and though it was nice enough to go out fishing a week ago, the snow is on it’s way.   I live just 20 minutes from a ski resort.  I love to ski.  So glad I’m not dealing with the vortex like so many of you…..   I have found though that the cold air makes my cough MUCH worse.  I need to make sure I keep my chest warm all the time.  I always thought it was just me…. but it seems that this is very common with IPF patients.  Anyway, know that you are always in my prayers along with everyone else on this forum.  Stay warm!

Blessings,

Andy

 

[Andrew Hall DC]

Thanks for asking about my dad Steve.  I had a conversation with my dad about a year ago that had a profound affect on me. I will try to not make this too lengthy.

When they passed out the parents, I struck gold!  Mom and dad were always very supportive for me and my two brothers. My older brother is also a doctor. My younger brother is a professor of Nuclear Medicine. Mom passed away 4 years ago this week from a very aggressive lung cancer.  She passed just 13 days after diagnosis.  I hope that when I die it is with even half the grace and dignity of my mom.

Dad was the head administrator of a hospital in Modesto for 34 years. He also founded a credit union in Modesto.  Dad is 96.  He goes to the gym on Monday, Wednesday and Fridays. He RUNS for 20 minutes before his circuit training.  On Tuesdays and Thursdays he goes to bible studies.  He is involved in 3 different churches.   He is a VERY spiritual man.  He is very smart, very high IQ, but very wise.

Just about a year ago, he came up to Sonora at the end of the morning so we could go to lunch together after his adjustment at the office.

During lunch, we talked about family stuff, and then as as always he asked how I was doing with the IPF. I told him I was doing great, the laser was still working.  Then I said, you know dad, I often wonder why I got IPF.  You know that I have always lived a healthy lifestyle, good nutrition, exercise and a good mental attitude. It doesn’t make sense to me. He said he wondered the same thing and actually prayed about it. He said it was in Gods plan.  I said I didn’t really like God’s plan….. Dad asked about the other IPF patients that I had found laser providers for.  I said that just like me, they had all improved.  He said that you know son, this condition never improves. You know, there are a couple drugs out there that slows progress for some people, but it doesn’t make you better. I said, wow dad you have done your homework.  He said that like you son, I always do my homework.  His said that this could be one of the greatest discoveries ever for IPF patients and that this was part of God’s plan. I said that some studies really need to be done, but that I had contacted the NIH, the American Lung Association and some other organizations, but that none of them were interested. He said that God’s plan is for me to do a study on this. I told him that the clinical research I’ve done was on muscle release technique and adjusting techinque. The thought of doing research on a disease that kills people scared the pants off me. I may not be qualified to research that was of such a serious nature.  Besides, there is no way I could get the numbers of IPF patient to do a valid study.  And with the HIPPA laws in this country, some pulmonologist or other organization just simply can’t send me a list of names of patients and stuff. Not going to happen.  Dad said that your mother and I have never taught you boys to back down from a challenge and that it’s in God’s plan.  He said that he has confidence in me and that I have had research experience and that I have lot’s of underst.anding and expertise with Laser Therapy.  Dad said I want you to listen to me very carefully. God has a plan, and He will put the right people in your life at the right time.  It will happen when you least expect it.  He went on to say to have trust in God and have trust in yourself. He said be patient.  I said thank you dad for all of your wisdom and support and advice, I appreciate it more than you will ever know. I love you dad.  I love you too son……

So dad I have two more questions for you.  Number one, how was your lunch?  It was great son! Question number two, do you have room for dessert?  He said sure, and I’ve been looking at the pies in the display case.  I’m thinking about the lemon pie.  I said yeah, I’m looking at the apple pie.  Dad, let’s indulge!!!

So.  The time has arrived.  The right people are in my life.  The time is now…….

LASER LIGHT        LIGHT=  Letting In God’s Healing Touch

Andy

[Andrew Hall DC]

Wonderful Lynn!  You probably won’t see a great deal of change with one laser treatment, and every other day would be very appropriate in the beginning of treatment.  Laser Therapy is cummulative, the more you do the better the results.  Then again, as far as one dose you could over do it, just like a medication, just because a little is good, a whole lot in one dose isn’t good. In other words using a Class IV laser for an hour would be a huge mistake. By the way, I have talked to several laser experts around the country and they all think a better dose would be 10 watts, continuous wave, 5 minutes on the front of the chest and 5 minutes on the back using an intercostal application (between the ribs).  I will be looking forward to seeing how it goes for you!

Andy

[Andrew Hall DC]

Sure Steve, would be happy to share my story.

Just over 5 years ago a developed a cough.  Didn’t think too much of it, but it slowly over a long period of time got worse and worse.  I figured I had maybe aquired a new allergy or something.  Then, I soon noticed that when hiking in the mountains where I live I started getting winded easily.  Really wasn’t like me.  And then I had to swim a hundred yards out to my moored boat at a lake at 7,000 ft elevation, (the same lake I got my mile swim merit badge as a boy scout).   This should have been a piece of cake swim, but less that  40 yards into it I ran completely out of breath.  Really thought I could drown out there.  I made it to another boat 20 yards away, and after a while was able haul my body into it.  I borrowed a life vest and after a 15 minute rest trying to catch my breath at managed to get to my boat with a lot of effort.  I would have died had it not been for the life vest. HUGE WAKE UP CALL!  The next week I called my family doctor and he referred me to the pulmomologist.  I should have not waited so long with the cough that got worse and worse, and yes, I am a doctor, but I’m still a guy!  I feel the ladies smiling here, because there is a lot of truth to that statement.  Women are much more likely to seek care earlier than men……    Anyway, the pulomonologist did a CT scan and Pulmonary Function Test and we sat down together.  He said I had IPF and the it was going to take my life.  Shocked, I asked how long I had.  He said I expect to put you on oxygen in 4 years and you will likely be dead in 5.  I told him that I was just way too busy for that what with my very busy practice and Laser teaching schedule.  Besides, hell, that just didn’t fit with my long term plans.  The thing is that the males in my family have great longevity.  My 96 year old father still runs 20 minutes before his circuit training at the gym 3 mornings a week!!!  He is still a board member of the Credit Union he founded 70 years ago.  So, the pulmonologist rx’d Symbicort.  On the way home from the Pulmonologist I cried for a short while.  Not so much as that I was just handed a death sentence, but because 23 years earlier I had a VERY serious health issue and was told by 4 diffenent Neurosurgeons that I would never work again and that they would have me strung out on Oxycontin and I would spend the rest of my life on the couch.  It was hell recovering from that problem but I did manage to get myself back to work in 18 months.  I have been an over-achiever my whole life and those were very dark days for me.   I didn’t want or need another serious problem.  Therefore, the tears……    But just like the health issues I had, the neurosurgeons could not help, I went back to my Chiropractic roots and overcame that problem.  With the IPF, I decided that there was no cure and I need to get back to my roots again.  Being an expert in Laser Therapy, I began treatment on myself using my best professional judgement as per dose, frequency, etc.  Had no idea if it would help, but the International Laser Conferences I had attended had had a Cardiologist from Denmark that cured Myocardial Infarction, a Nephrologist from England with success on Kidney issues and a doctor from Russia that cured Pancreas issues.  Why not try it for IPF?  What the heck did I have to lose?  Low and behold, my subsequent Lung Function tests improved.  Subsequent CT’s showed no additional honeycombing.  I’ve been very faithful using the laser every week.   Presently, over 4 years later I’m better than when all this started!

So Steve, ask a simple question and get a five page answer!!!!!   Sorry…….. (:

Blessings everyone……..

Andy

 

[Andrew Hall DC]

First of all, Charlene, I want to thank you for your dedication to this website.  It’s amazing, and you are doing a fantastic job!   I thought I would join this forum.  I have had a huge number of IPF patients contacting me due to this forum.   As per the last post by John, you must be a doctor to purchase a Class IV laser, you must be ‘credentialed’ for Class IV lasers, and also, for most people they are costs prohibative.  Mine was $27,000.  Since 2003, I have owned 4, currently have 2.

Charlene mentioned that laser for IPF is not grounded in the literature.  Of course, that is exactly what we are trying to do with this study.  I have done other research, lastest regarding a manual I wrote that included 269 of my patients.  That research was not published, but I expect the research for IPF will be.  I want everyone to know that I would be happy to answer any questions regarding laser for IPF, either on this forum or by personal email.  The results from all the IPF patients using laser have been positive.  The results John found are not unusual.  Increased function and oxygenation.  Do I consider Laser Therapy to be a cure? The simple answer is NO.  A cure would eliminate the fibrous tissue and the laser does not appear to do that.  But the results so far show that it arrests the formation of new fibrous tissue and increases lung function and increases oxygenation.  Not all IPF patients that use laser are enrolled in the study, but they do stay in contact.   The study only recently was begun due to the fact that all those using laser responded so well.  It could no longer be ‘coincidence’.  But my experience with research is that you can’t go by 12-15 patients.  We need a lot of patients for this study for it to be valid.

 

[Andrew Hall DC]

Hi Lynn,

No, I don’t think it is too much at all.  The only thing I would suggest is to cover the entire chest, front and back on each visit. I think you will do better for it.

Andy

[Andrew Hall DC]

Hi Terry,

Yes, there is an ongoing commitment to laser.  I continue to use laser every week, and expect to forever.  I don’t know what the fees that the doctor charges, but it might pay to shop around, no use paying more to a doctor for the exact same service/protocol that you can get from another doctor cheaper.

Andy

[Andrew Hall DC]

Marsha, thank you for your kind words. Very sweet!  Please let me know if the doctors don’t get back to you as I will personally call or email them for you.

The mailing address is on the ipflaserstudy.com website, but I’ll give it to you here.

Address:

Dr Andrew Hall

PO Box 1100

Twain Harte, CA  95383

Thanks again for being involved in the study.  We are still very shy for the numbers of patients we need for a valid study.

Blessings,

Andy

[Andrew Hall DC]

Hi Lynn,

I can’t speak for the other guys, but I’m not on oxygen.  I don’t check it often because it is so consistent.  It usually runs 97-99 at rest.  When I was at the pulmonologist in October it was 99, he mumbled that it was better than his and he doesn’t even have any lung issues.

I too have had posts that didn’t show up, like today when I responded again to Marsha.  I guess we just have to deal with a few hiccups sometimes……

Andy

[Andrew Hall DC]

Hello Marsha,

The first laser I found in Pittsburgh is with the Pittsburgh Pirates.  Most all pro sports teams have Class IV lasers. Doubt they would see you.  However, the good news is that there are a couple more near you.  Laser Pain Relief Center, ph: 724-327-1220, and Consales Chiropractic at: 412-678-9123.

Speaking of the Pirates and pro baseball, most all pro teams, baseball and football have Class IV lasers.  I have seen a pitcher for the New York Yankees. My laser saved his career.  In fact he is on my chiropractic site helping me demo a muscle release technique that I researched in my office.  I created my manual from this research called CLNRT, or Cranial Laser and Neurolymphatic Release Technique.

The initial paperwork for the laser research study is on the ipflaserstudy.com website.  If you fill that out, then provide copies of the PFT’s and copies of your C/T scan reports we will have you enrolled in the study. I want to thank you SO MUCH for your willingness to participate!

Blessings,

Andy

[Andrew Hall DC]

Hi Charlene!

Glad to be back…..  My wife and I were 3 1/2 hours away for the weekend seeing friends near the coast. We had to leave early to come home after learning we have a blizzard coming. What a difference 9 days makes, I was fishing on my boat in 65 degree weather soaking up some sun and getting some fresh air.  We got home only to find the power had already gone out and our house was freezing.  The power is back on.  For now.  I did however finally get back to Donna and Marsha.  I have more replies to make, mostly on my personal email regarding laser and IPF.  Hope I can get it all completed before we lose power again.  They are predicting about 4 feet of snow at my house.  I posted on the thread about the cold weather and how it makes my cough so much worse.  Right now, I’m hoping I can make it to work on Tuesday.  But with all the snow, the roads may be impassable.  Ugg……. Not really looking forward to the snow blower and shovel work ahead of me the next few days.  Hope it’s warming up where you are.

Oh yeah, I know you asked if I eat the fish I catch and yes I do some, but I hate to freeze fish, I love it fresh, and I like to maintain the resource by releasing all the fish I can.

Blessings!

Andy

[Andrew Hall DC]

Hello Melissa!  Welcome to this group!  You have certainly found a group of wonderful, caring and supportive people.  I have found two laser providers both within 25 miles of you.  King Chiropractic in Chelmsford, phone: 678-821-9014,  also, Condon Chiropractic Office, phone: 978-474-4500.

If for some reason that doesn’t work out for you let me know and we can find more but further away.  So happy for your willingness to participate in the laser study!

Again, welcome Melissa!

Andy

[Andrew Hall DC]

Hello again Maureen,

The good thing about laser is that it warms tissues but when properly applied does not ‘heat’ the tissue.  During treatment you feel a nice healing warmth but again will not burn if done correctly.  That is why we use laser with patients that have metal implant, screws, pins, etc with no problem at all.  Currently I’m treating a patient that shattered both bones in her ankle and she had metal straps, screws and pins to hold it all together.  We use laser to stimulate and promote healing.  It will heal in half the time and increase tensile strength to the bone, making it even more stable.

So, using the laser with the implants should not be an issue.

I found Integrated Healing Solutions in Orland Park near you.  Phone: 708-403-5075.  In Chicago proper there are a LOT of laser dodctors.

Blessings Maureen!

Andy

ps, I think the Bears overall had a good season……..

 

[Andrew Hall DC]

Hello Maureen,

I love your name, same as my mom’s!  I always thought it was such a classy name….

Anyway, mastectomy are not a problem with the laser.  There is no contraindication.  I believe that the sooner one starts laser therapy the better.  I have heard from a number of IPF patients that they do not tolerate Esbriet or Ofev very well, and therefore they are looking at laser as an alternative.  My pulmonologist advised Esbriet for me but my insurance didn’t cover it and at $9,000/month it was out of the question.

Chicago is a big town, I think there are many different zip codes there, let me know what yours is and I will find a laser provider near you.

Best wishes,

Andy

BTW: do you watch the Super Bowl?   Go Rams!

[Andrew Hall DC]

Donna, I could not find your original post, but I think it was for your sister.  I’m trying to not make final conclusions on Laser Therapy until proper research is complete.  However I can tell you about the anecdotal results that we have observed. As I recall, your sister was maybe late stage or close to it.  And yes, I have personally worked with a late stage patient. Very late stage.  She was able to reduce the amount of oxygen she was on 24/7.  The nice thing is that after about 3 weeks of treatment, she was able to go out to eat and even took in a couple movies, where before she was housebound.  She told me she had more ‘spunk’.  Sadly though, her brother and sister, also having IPF passed away within two weeks of each other.  They both lived out of state.  Our patient on her last visit said she would not be back, she wanted to join her siblings.  She quit laser and just gave up in her grief.   She passed 3 months later.  Honestly, can’t say I blame her. She had no family.

What we have found so far is that  Laser Therapy arrests the progression but increases function and oxygenation.  And that is why this late stage patient was able to get out again.  This is also why in my opinion that the sooner an IPF patient starts the better.  Just like early detection of cancer or anything else, the sooner you identify it and ‘jump on it’ the better.  I started Laser Therapy  like the day after diagnosis and I know that is why I am doing so exceptionally well over 4 years later.  But honestly, I still have a lot of questions.  Like, how long will this prolong your life?  I don’t know…..  Will the IPF flare up down the road for some funky unknown reason even if doing laser?  I don’t know……

Anyway D0nna I hope I was helpful. I do think your sister would see some postive change.  However, we need to have realistic expectations for a later stage patient.   I Would be happy to answer any other questions.  Blessings to you and your sister.

Dr Andy Hall

[Andrew Hall DC]

Marylin, you make me smile.  It’s very easy! All you or anyone else has to do is tell where they live and I will be happy to do a search.  Trust me Marylin, it is NOT a burden to me at all.  I just got home from work not too long ago and had dinner.  I work all day on Tuesdays and Thursday afternoons and never really get a break while working, so those days I may be slow getting back to people.  I don’t usually get home til about 8 pm or so.  I always work til I’m done, and it can be a long day but I can’t turn any patient away…… Also, I’m in California and seems like most people are on Eastern time.  But I promise everyone that I will respond.

So please let me know where you are and let me help you.

Andy

[Andrew Hall DC]

Hi Charlene,

I want to thank you again for the amazing job you are doing moderating this awesome site.  You know, when I joined I really wasn’t sure how well I would be welcomed.  It has been incredible.  I seriously have never in my 66 years seen such a loving, supportive and caring group of people.  I LOVE this site.  Having IPF I really do feel at home here. We can ALL really relate with each other.

I know that I cannot morally or ethically bypass people with Usual Interstitial Pneumonia, HP or any other fibrous lung disease in an important study.  They must be included as their lives matter! We all need to look after each other.

Yeah, the country and Canada is in a deep freeze.  The wierd thing is that where I live at 4,500 ft, the last 5 days or so has been unseasonable warm.  I went to the lake fishing on Friday, and it was a gorgeous 65 degrees.  It’s beautiful there, and when I go by myself like on Friday it is like a spiritual time for me.  Lots of contemplation, thinking and making mental lists of all I want to accomplish and how to do it.  Catching fish is almost a distraction.  I caught and released 8.

You might realize that I am dedicated to what I do.  I try to respond to peoples questions right away. But Tuesdays are not good for that.  I think I mentioned that I semi-retired last April and I work a day and a half a week.  Tuesday is my full day, and then Thursday afternoons.  Yesterday I left for work at 7:45 am and I didn’t get home until 8:15 pm.  By the time I got some dinner I was just too exhausted to get on the computer.  When I work, I really work.  But the good thing is that working a day and a half means five and a half days off!  I’m loving it, and it gives me time to work on the things I’m dedicated to.  I keep wondering when to work on the 3rd edition of my manual, I’m out of the 2nd edition and need to print more. I will find time, somewhere, but sometimes a guy just needs to ride his Harley or go catch a fish! We need to enjoy the time that we have on earth, and having something like IPF makes it even more important.  Anyway, Charlene, know that you are loved by everyone…….

Blessings,

Andy

[Andrew Hall DC]

Thank you Charlene,

The thing I first noticed about this forum was the warm caring supportive attitudes.  I felt very drawn to it.  I think that all of us that have been diagnosed with IPF are ‘in the same boat’ and we can really relate in ways that even our own families can’t do.

You are very insightful about Laser Therapy.  Class IV lasers are not toys. Only medical professionals are allowed to purchase them.  There are some dangers involved, for example even a quick flash to an unprotected eye will cause permanent damage to the retina.  As I mentioned, you must be credentialed to use a Class IV laser.  I used to credential other doctors.  A Class III laser is much different, lay people are able to purchase them, BUT realize that Class III lasers only have a power level of up to 1/2 watt, not nearly enough power to penetrate the chest wall and get deep into the lungs.  They are not adequate for use for IPF.  I highly recommend at least 10 watts of power to get to the target tissue (lungs).

I too am thankful for John for bringing Laser Therapy to light for a lot of people.  I feel that there are alternative treatments that can be very helpful for IPF like Stem Cell Therapy.  I’m for ANYTHING that will help an IPF patient.  But patients can’t make choices for themselves if they don’t even know what choices are available to them.

Again, thanks for allowing me to join this forum, it is very impressive…….. and I feel somehow like I”m ‘at home’ on this site.  Looking forward to sharing some of my artwork on the hobby thread.

[Andrew Hall DC]

Hi Terry,

Had no idea you were in Sacramento.  I would like to suggest Dr McGinnis.  I have known him professionally for decades and in fact I personally credentialled him for Class IV laser many, many years ago.  He has a Klaser that I highly recommend.  Please tell him hello for me!  Dr McGinnis phone is:  916-929-8155

Andy

[Andrew Hall DC]

Hi Terry,

This is one of those things that lately I have been giving a lot of thought about.  I can tell you that in my experiance that a study needs to be well designed for it to be valid and presented.  I don’t think that several conditions should be ‘lumped together’.  Having said that, I think the best thing to do is to have a study of strictly IPF patients, and a side study of other Fibrosis conditions.  So, the answer is yes.  Lets face it, we can’t wait on the NIH or any other organization to take the bull by the horns and do these studies with laser.  It’s just not going to happen, and if it does it will be so far in the future that it really won’t help us with these diseases that we all suffer from now………

[Andrew Hall DC]

Oh yeah, about my father, incredible man.  Sometime I would like to share a conversation I had with him just over a year ago…….