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Laser Therapy Results
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Hi Steve @steve-dragoo
It’s good to hear that you seem to be doing OK on your long stay in the Philippines, even without the laser treatments. Have you had any PFTs while there or is it just a general feeling? Personally, the laser does not seem to be helping as my PFTs are worse and I’m due to see a nurse on Tuesday about starting medication. Are you on meds as well as all your supplements?
I’m wondering if the WEI herbs might help, but don’t know how to access them here in U.K. As you are also outside US, do you have any suggestions as to how I can get them?
I’m also booked for another 2 month holiday in New Zealand in January. Does anyone know of a laser therapist there? I’ll be based on Hamilton, North Island.
Best wishes – David
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@davidaswain
Hey Dave,
No treatments over here. Pulmonologists are almost completely unaware of ILD/IPF as it is quite rare here. So when I return to the USA sometime in 2020, I will have my local Roanoke, VA doc set up tests she may want to do and I will restart laser therapy. I think laser + Wei will be very helpful for me and I know everyone came to this forum from different causes of lung ailments so I cannot speak to how something may help but certainly hope it does. That is why I love this forum so much because the moderators are intimately involved with our lung problems and this is a universal place to add insights that are better than many doctor recommendations sometimes.
I plan on getting an O2 concentrator next month so that will be 5 months with no O2 or laser already – just Wei and various supplements – no meds for IPF.
Wei shipped here no problem and took about a week to receive – 3 times. So not knowing your particulars and source of your lung disease, I will mention Wei took 3.25 months before I noticed any significant difference in my IPF. Main differences are more energy, stable O2 readings of 95-98, less out of breath when going upstairs, and slower heart rate – was also diagnosed with PAH so a slower heart rate and less out of breath are big. I will add I served in cardiology in the USA Navy, have a pulmonologist friend here, several nurses in the family and friends, and 2 doctors in the family but generally I don’t consult them about IPF.
Reach out to Andy and see if he has any insight about laser in NZ. I also brought a lot of supplements and the remaining first batch of Wei in my suitcases and had no issues coming here but I have been in and out of the Philippines over 10 times.
Hope that helps… – Steve
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@drandyhall @let666 @steve-dragoo
Thank you, Andy, Steve and Leontis for your kind comments regarding my new numbers!
Leontis, you asked about my numbers when I was diagnosed in 2015:
Fvc 87, Fev1 97, DLCO 46.
After lung surgery and chemo in April 2018:
Fvc 76, Fev1 78, DLCO 38.
I started laser treatments late February 2019 and did a PFT in April 2019:
Fvc 82, Fev1 86, DLCO 28.
And most recently during Sept. 2019:
Fvc 91, Fev1 91, DLCO 33.
I’ve not been treated with any prescription IPF medications. I use oxygen at 2 at home and 3 with exertion. Since 2015 I’ve been sleeping in a bed with my head elevated (I have GERD for which I take Omeprazole every day).
So, that’s the big picture (much more than you asked for but I tend to go overboard!). Plus, I now have my PFT history at my fingertips which will be very convenient for me.
Blessings to you all and I so appreciate everyone’s input on this site. Thanks again!
Marsha
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I am a non smoker newly diagnosed at age 62 with IPF..my pulmonologist just started me on 10mg prednisone for 2 weeks. He is ordering Ofev for me and wasn’t interested in my questions about laser therapy. However, my husband and I feel we have nothing to lose by trying it. So we found a chiropractor willing to do Dr. Halls photocall and I start my first treatment on Monday. My o2 on activity goes into lower 80s so they have ordered oxygen for me which I haven’t started yet. I seem to recover in the 90s after a minute or less. My question is whether there is any known problems getting laser treatments while taking prednisone? I would appreciate any and all advice..very scared about all that is ahead of me. I emailed Dr. Hall about possibly being a part of his study, but no reply?
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Hi Wendy,
Thank you for writing to us and sharing a bit of your story. I know it can be very overwhelming to be newly diagnosed and think about everything that is ahead of us. Be gentle with yourself and take it one day at a time! I know @drandyhall is quite busy, and will reply to your email as soon as he can. I did tag him here as well, so hopefully he can answer your question about laser therapy. I know lots of folks have had a good experience with it, please let us know about yours when you can.
Regards,
Charlene.-
@wendyray
Hi Wendy and welcome,
Regards laser contraindications – that is unclear but please be sure the doctor/technician is using the right protocol and confirm each set of numbers. Mine was using the wrong settings for the first 3 visits. Also if you, as I do, have an enlarged lymph node – it is potentially possible to slightly enlarge it more but this therapy is new to all of us so I am not sure it has affected the node. My last MRI showed it enlarged after 3 months of laser treatment but I kept going twice a week longer than needed because I moved to the Philippines and there is no class 4 laser here.
Please look at some of the other forums as there several other things you might consider doing.
@charlene-marshall, are you waterlogged??? – Steve
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Great reply Steve! Thank you for being so welcoming and supportive of new members like @wendyray, and many others.
I’m not water logged yet – I am loving being in the ocean every day. The pacific has a heatwave running through it right now – according to the locals – which has made the temperature like bath water. It’s lovely to wade in but apparently bad for the coral and reefs. I head to Kauai tonight, I don’t imagine the ocean will be as warm there. Lol – stayed tuned! I’m off to the Na Pali coast next ….
Charlene.
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Hello, all. I’m finally considering pursuing laser therapy. My pulmonologist has said that he would read Andy’s protocol, and last night I downloaded it. Question, though: when you look at the protocol online, you get a chart for programmable lasers and some other info under the protocol section, but when you download it as a pdf, that chart doesn’t show up on the download. If I’m giving the protocol to someone with a K-laser, do they need all of that info or just what shows up on the pdf? Thanks for any help you can give. @drandyhall
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Hello Kate,
Pleased to hear you are starting laser! Sorry it’s taken so long to get to you but I am currently camped in the wilds of Wyoming. In town now for supplies, etc. No internet available at camp……
Usually, the protocol is simply printed without converting to a pdf. I don’t know if you can just print but that’s what I would suggest. If you are still having problems next week I will be available again on Oct 10 and I can discuss it with my son ( the computer expert) and he will have a solution.
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@katee,
Hi Kate,
The K-laser my doc used had predefined settings so we had to adapt the thoracic setting. So make sure the numbers add up as we used the wrong timing for a couple of weeks. Also, try a screenshot of the chart if you need it. – Steve
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Hi Kate,
Really good question! I’m sure Dr. Hall will reply to you as soon as he can, I know he is a busy man 🙂
In the mean time, John ( @caneelbay1 ) how did you print the protocol to bring to your physician to administer laser therapy? Are you able to answer Kate’s question? Keep me posted on how / if laser works for you Kate, I’d love to hear!
Kind regards,
Charlene. -
Thanks, Charlene!
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Hello, I printed Andys information from his web site and printed the Egyptian study on lower level laser on acupuncture points ( Low-level laser therapy in chronic obstructive lung disease Sayed MA, El-Sherif RM, Mohamed AR, El-Sherif AA – Egypt J Bronchol ) and gave it to the first chiropractor I use. I have found that when you explain the situation we are dealing with, a disease that is terminal and that the laser has helped people that the chiropractors are very caring and helpful, I use a chiropractor here in Western North Carolina when I am in the mountains. Can not say the same for the pulmonologists who dismiss the laser. Once you start I feel the consistency of weekly treatments is important. I am doing 20 minutes twice a week at 9 watts and have done laser for 8 months. The only time I have not adhered to a weekly schedule is when I was in Europe for two weeks, I have remained stable when my pft test done in September 2019 was compared to my pft test done in November 2018. This is huge to me because I deteriorated 26% since diagnosis in November 2016 and 13% from March 2018 to November 2018. I use a pulse meter to monitor my sat levels and in the mountains have to use portable oxygen because I live at sea level most of the year in Florida. I would suggest monitoring your sat levels. Hope the laser keeps working.
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Hi to all,
Sorry I haven’t posted for quite a while. I started Laser Treatment in February of this year. I have felt better and have had more energy ever since. I went for my PFT and six minute walk in June of this year. Unfortunately, my Fev1 dropped almost 10% from PFT in December of 2018. The transplant Doctor wanted me to do all of the tests for Transplant all over again! Was done a little over 2 years ago. I talked him into waiting 3 more months and go the PFT and 6 min. walk again. Being totally depressed, I did not report to this blog the results. I did not want to think that Laser did not seem to help me.
I went over all that had happened and realized that in January, I had an episode on my treadmill where after 1 lap (1/4 mile) I had to stop and quit as my Pulse/Ox dropped to 75% and heart rate went over 130! That had never happened before. I quit the treadmill for 3 weeks and went into depression. It was at that time I discovered Dr Hall and Laser treatments. I have now completed 44 Laser Treatments and went back for another PFT and 6 Minute walk.
My Fev1 is still at 2.09, but my DLCO improved and I increased my 6 minute walk 23 meters to 508 meters! The doctor said I was stabilized and good to go for another 3 months, no transplant tests!
I have come to the conclusion that my lungs actually got worse in January prior to starting Laser Treatments. I log info on using my treadmill and pulse ox continues to get better and my heart rate is lower as I increase my walking speed. It has been slow coming back, but I now treadmill at 2.3 mph for 20 minutes daily and yesterday at completion my pulse ox was at 90 and hr at 106.
Bottom line is do not give up, stay positive, fight depression. Thanks to Esbriet, Laser Treatments and exercise, I am doing ok!
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Thanks to Steve and Charlene and Dr Hall and John for responding! Much appreciated. @drandyhall this is what I can tell you. When you go to the protocol on your summit website, it directs you to ‘download and print’ down at the bottom. When I did that, it converted it to a pdf, and there’s info missing on the protocol page in the pdf. The chart is missing that refers to the settings for a programmable laser, but it also removes several other lines. I would suggest that you have your son correct that, if he can. I can print the protocol correctly if I just print from the webpage without downloading it first, so I’ll do that for now. Just thought you’d want to know.
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@steve-dragoo I have one other question for now. I’d like a better understanding of what the chart for programmable lasers is recommending for a protocol before I start calling places around here to see if anyone will do this for me. If one was using that chart, would they be using all of those settings that are listed, from ‘capillary to difficult healing’? Each for 25 seconds? You’d mentioned that your practitioner had used the wrong timing for your first 3 sessions. Thanks for any clarification you can give.
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@katee
Hi Kate – I started laser before Andy and his team posted the protocol so I got numbers from Andy and asked my doctor to tell me what watts, time, and joules he was using and we modified from there.
So I have not looked at the chart but most K-laser class 4 modulate which means they reach different depths and affect different parts differently. For example, water responds differently than bone to the modulation frequencies but I hasten to add that I know little about this growing science. Please reach out to Andy for a better example. – Steve
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Thanks, @steve-dragoo. I’ll email Andy with my questions.
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After reading many positive responses on this thread to laser treatments I am thrilled to announce I have elected to participate in Dr. Hall’s laser study. I selected a chiropractor who has extensive experience using her clinic’s programmable class IV laser on neuropathy patients and she is delighted to do her part in the study. I am confident she will follow Dr. Hall’s therapy protocol as prescribed.
I had my first treatment this morning and it went very well. The doc had the laser programmed when I arrived so it was a very efficient application of about 4.5 minutes each on the front and back of the left and right lungs. I have two more sessions this week and will continue with three sessions weekly for four weeks when it reduces to two sessions per week. I am already looking forward to my next PFTs on October 31 in order to compare those results with prior PFTs.
Many people have reported “feeling better” following treatments. I hope I have the same experience, but I wish there was an objective measure to “feeling better.” Any suggestions?
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Keep us posted Merle! I’d love to hear about your experiences – this isn’t something I’ve tried yet but I’d love to hear how it goes for you, especially after a few sessions and comparing your PFTs. Best wishes!
Charlene. -
Update on my laser experience. Had my lung function test yesterday and I am stable, with some improvement when compared to lung function test done Nov 2018. My FEV1 had improved 10% and Dlco improved 5%. I was first diagnosed Sept 2016. I had been in steady decline since diagnosis with 15% decline in fev1 from March 2018 to Nov 2018. I do laser twice a week for 12 to 15 minutes, I was doing 9 watts and now doing 12 watts. So much to consider when doing this because with lack of a lot of history on laser for lungs. I have been doing laser for 10 months. I do not think laser will cure this disease or improve our lungs but I feel it has stopped the progression. Sometimes I get discouraged when I have difficulty picking up a heavy object or need supplemental oxygen when walking distances but then I thank God I am stable. A lot to consider when doing laser, the size of the laser head matters, the power of the laser and times per week can impact the results as well as if the laser is working properly.
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I had my lung function test yesterday, 10 months of doing laser and 12 month update. I am stable, my pft test done november last year showed Fev1 1.41 and Dlco 10.6 and November this year Fev1 1.56 and Dlco 11.2. I am doing twice a week and now doing 12 watts. I can not do the drugs available due to existings scaring in my liver and a transplant would require liver and lung. I do not think laser is a cure but thank God for stable results. I am very dedicated to staying on schedule, the only time I missed laser treatments was when I was in Europe. I think the power of the laser and the laser head is very important and if the laser is working properly. Sometimes I get discouraged when I pick something up or walking extended distances and needing oxygen. I will take the stabilization and be thankful. Big thanks to Andy.
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@caneelbay1
Hey John,
Any stabilization is a victory. But I also vaguely remember reading somewhere laser is contraindicated with any tumours. I was using to much laser and it may have slightly contributed to an enlarged lymph node in my L lung. Since I won’t be able to do any function tests until I return to the USA next year sometime, I don’t know it the lymph has stabilized since I have not used the laser in over 5 months. – Steve
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Hi John,
Thanks so much for the update and thrilled to hear the good news re: stability. I agree with Steve, and any/all stable results should be celebrated. Kudos to you for being so proactive with your health, and the dedication you have to laser and sharing your results with all of us. Nice to hear from you, and hope you’ve been keeping well overall 🙂
Charlene.
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My laser results as of March 2020, I compared my PFT results from September 2016 when diagnosed with usual interstitial pneumonia, a form of IPF. I have been doing laser since January 2019 and have done over 100 treatments, started out at 10 watts 3 times a week and then twice a week and then once a week and then twice a week and now doing 15 watts for 20 minutes twice a week and then the next week once a week and going to twice a week. My DlCO was 16.09 in September 2016 and then went down to 10.04 in March of 2019, a decline of 35% in 30 months. Since March of 2019 to March of 2020 I have a 8% increase in Dlco for 14 months. March of 2019 it was 10.04 and March 2020 11.3%. FEV 1 in 9/2016 was 1.92% and March 2019 was1.52%, a decline of 22%. March of 2019 1.52% and March of 2020 1.49% a decline of 2% in 14 months. I am real happy with these results and actually my pulmonologist says I have stabilized ( he does not believe in laser, go figure). I do not take the drugs available due to liver scaring and a transplant would require a double transplant. A big thank you to Andy Hall who inspired me to start laser.
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@caneelbay1
Hi John – this is great news, thanks so much for summarizing the results of your laser therapy. I’m sure it’ll help others understand how it’s helped you. Continue to do well and keep us posted, I think of you often. I also hope @drandyhall is doing well… haven’t heard from him in awhile. Take care!
Char. -
Thanks for the update John, so great to hear you are still doing well and stable.
I know things really slowed down on the laser therapy thread on PFN, but I have still been very busy referring IPF patients to laser therapy providers, just referred another 5 just this morning alone. The good news is that the vast majority of patients are finding positive results with laser therapy. I have heard from a very small handfull of IPF patients that found no objective or subjective changes, and I still see some with moderate to dramatic positive changes. I continue to do very well, my last PFT was still better than my first one 6 years ago. I still get laser therapy on a weekly basis and don’t take Ofev or Esbriet.
Blessings to everyone!!!
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So nice to hear from you @drandyhall ! Thanks for writing and letting us know how you’re doing. Glad you continue to find beneficial results from laser therapy, and that others seem to be telling you the same. It is always worrisome when we don’t hear from members for a long time, so it is wonderful to hear from you. Continue to do well!
Char. -
Just today I came across this discussion. I’m intrigued.
Can someone inform how much the treatments cost in US dollars?
Has anyone found a doctor in Los Angeles that will do the treatments?
Thanks
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