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Portable Oxygen Concentators
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Steve – Regarding flying with a POC. I have flown a few times with my POC. 1. you need FAA approved system 2. you will need to show the ticket agent at the airport that you have sufficient battery life for 1 1/2 times of the estimated flight time 3. you will be seated in the 2nd or 3rd row window seat. 4. POC unit should be stowed under the seat in front of you for take off and landing. During flight, move the POC unit from under the seat to the space between your legs because the unit needs access to air and almost needs to dissipated the heat it generates. If you keep the unit under the seat in front of you it can over heat due to the confined space and cease working (very disconcerting at 38,000 feet). The unit will not reboot until it cools down. 5. Bring ac/dc charger with you to charge batteries in the gate area or restaurants when you can. 6. arrange for wheel chair assists with the airlines to take you to the gate and then from your destination gate to baggage and car rental. I hope this helps…BERT
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@anne-tarantino, @bmaidment
Hi Anne and Bert,
Thanks for sharing your insights. I am curious why not an aisle seat (my preference)? I try to get up a lot and don’t fit so great in the sloping window seat. Can’t afford business or 1st class either.
Thanks,
Steve
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Steve – The airlines (United in both cases) stipulated window seat. I guess you can always ask to be assigned a middle seat although their rationale is that no one would need to crawl over you in case of an emergency if you are in window seat. Business class? First class? What is that? Save travels, BERT
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Bert, you are a good writer—I agree with your statement 100%
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Hi Steve,
Thanks so much for sharing, though I am so sorry to hear how difficult things have been! Just seems so unfair for such a great person/friend like yourself. Did they ever determine if the electrolyte imbalance and other unpleasant symptoms were from a virus of some kind? Glad your COVID swab came back negative…
Gosh, sounds like your lungs are starting to need 02, even if for this next little while to recover. I’m glad you have some now! Is your doctor in the US able to connect with a doctor there and write a script for oxygen, so you don’t have such a hard time obtaining it in future? I’m glad you have a concentrator now, but it is always helpful to have back up tanks/bottles in case an issue goes wrong with the concentrator battery or the power is out. Hang in there my friend, it sounds like your lungs have a ways to go yet before they heal. I know it is tough to be still and rest, but we need you here for a long time more with us 🙂
Thinking of you and hope you continue on the mend!
hugs,
Char. -
Just a few comments about POCs and some reliable sources of information:
1) The Pulmonary Paper organization prepares an annual comparison of oxygen concentrators with detailed specifications from many companies. Latest is 2019. Included are both continuous flow and pulse flow models as well as models such as the Simply/Go that Charlene mentions which will do both–although not at the same level. https://www.pulmonarypaper.org/portable-oxygen-concentrators-comparison-chart-2019/
2) Suggest you visit the Pulmonary Fibrosis Foundation (PFF) website, especially the section that deals with Oxygen Therapy which includes a wealth of reliable information about needs, options, requirements and guidelines https://www.pulmonaryfibrosis.org/life-with-pf/oxygen-therapy Also, the PFF has a FREE professional Oxygen Therapy Information Line 844-825-5733 which can provide individualized information.
3) Be aware that the FLOW RATES on oxygen concentrators are NOT equal to liters/minute. Normal air is about 80/20 nitrogen/oxygen. Concentrators remove most of the nitrogen so the output varies from approximately 88%-96% pure oxygen. If your doctor says you need 5 liters/min of oxygen, a POC operating at 90% will provide only 4.5 liters/min.
4) I have a large oxygen concentrator from Inogen–about the size of a carry-on suitcase–that weighs 18 lbs and provides CONTINUOUS flow up to approximately 4 liters/min which I use for sleeping with my CPAP machine. I have an Inogen One G3 that provides PULSED FLOW up to approximately 4 liters/min that I use for walking, exercise, etc It is FAA approved. Those were provided on a rental basis through Medicare. I also purchased a SimplyGo portable oxygen concentrator that I use for travel because it provides up to 2 liters/min CONTINUOUS flow oxygen that I use with my CPAP on trips. That level may be too low for some but your sleep oxygen requirements may be lower than waking so for me it still works.
5) If you plan to travel (post-COVID 19) there are companies and cruise lines that specialize in helping those of us who need oxygen therapy when we are away from our home resources.
There is much to know about oxygen therapy and I suggest you read the online brochures on the PFF website for more detailed and authoritative information. Good luck–and join the club. Doug Jones
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Data I collected a few months ago. Prices were approximate at the time…
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@charlene-marshall
Hi Charlene,
Pulmonologists over here know very little about ILD or IPF – it is very rare here. I visited a pulmonologist over a year ago and she couldn’t really help also the VA doctor has only made a couple of small recommendations. Medicine here is a totally different world and my doctor at home is very limited in what she can recommend.
I do a little exercise, clear my lungs and improve very so slightly every day but with AFib who knows what might happen.
Thank you for your kind words. I was a lot worse off than mentioned here but on the mend and will keep going until I can’t.
Stay well
Steve
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@dejones8576, @johno
Thanks for your insights and sharing!
Stay well…
Steve
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Thanks for writing back Steve, and letting me know. It’s unfortunate how different medicine is where you are vs. in the States, sorry they can’t do more but I’m so glad you’ve been resourceful in getting 02 and are improving even slightly every day. Keep up the great work and keep in touch, as always 🙂
Char. -
Hi @dejones8576
Thanks so much for this incredible information and insight. I have no doubt it will help many others considering portable oxygen concentrators! Thanks for taking the time to write.
Char.
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Hi Folks,
I just wanted to let you know about the addition I made to my inogen concentrator. Knowing that the intakes on the concentrator have no hepa filters, I sent away for small concave hepa filters for masks and attached over the intakes. They are concave to prevent overheating. My pulmonist was impressed. Inogen and others should make these changes to protect better from Covid 19. Best, Barbara
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When I moved from Colorado to Boise, Idaho I was using an Inogen G4 provided by Apria under Medicare.
While Apria has a small presence here, I quickly learned from my doctors that the favored supplier is a local multi-office company called Norco. I visit their warehouse and showroom in nearby Meridian, Idaho.
While getting things set up from my move I was telling the representative how I disliked my POC for the same reasons others have mentioned in their posts… things like the weight, short battery life, noise, limited flow rates, etc.
My biggest problem was not having enough battery life to go into town for doctor’s appointments, have lunch in town, and returning home. Even with a car charger, it was always cutting it close.
The representative introduced me to a liquid oxygen system made by Caire Inc. It consists of a tank about 4 feet tall and about 18 inches in diameter. The highest flow rate is 10 lpm. This is continuous flow. The tank takes the place of a home concentrator and is completely silent. There are no moving parts.
Another part of this system is a portable tank. You fill this tank from the larger home tank. It is lightweight and produces a continuous flow rate of 6 lpm or 15 lpm depending on the model. This unit is approximately 15 inches tall and around 10 inches across. It is contour shaped to rest comfortably against your side when hanging from the strap. There are no batteries to change out. This unit provides O2 for 4 to 7 hours per charge.
Advantages: lightweight, extended time between recharges, quiet, continuous flow, high flow rates.
Disadvantage: You cannot extend service time by slipping in a fresh battery. For this reason, it is not good for extended travel.
I have been using this system for 9 months. It is perfect for me. Norco recharges the big tank by moving it to their service truck for about 5 minutes then wheeling it back into my home. The big tank usually needs recharging every 7-14 days for most people.
I have my home tank connected to my APAP (CPAP) machine at 2 liters. I need service every 14 or so days. All is covered in my Medicare Advantage coverage. I don’t think you need an Advantage program to get covered by Medicare.
I am told that most DME suppliers (Apria, Lincare, etc.) will lend/rent a battery operated portable unit for your travel needs.
Portable Caire Helios Liquid O2 units
15 LPM unit on left
6 LPM unit on right
Home tank – Caire
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Hi Ron,
Wow, thank you so much for taking the time to share all of this wonderful information with us and explaining how this is helpful for you. I have no doubt it will be helpful to others seeking out information about POCs and other oxygen options. Thank you again!
Sincerely,
Charlene. -
Prices were approximate about 6 months ago.
Best source of information I’ve found (though they are selling them) is: Oxygen Concentrator Store: Oxygen Suppliers for Oxygen Equipment
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Ron’s note on LOX is right on the money. If you need anything over 3L/min continuous there are no portable machines; by which I mean machines that can be comfortably carried. I can manage on 1 reservoir refill per month but I use a stationary concentrator to sleep. If you are active nothing beats LOX but suppliers in many parts of the country are loath to supply it because they think it’s a lot of bother. I don’t know what the economics are, that may be a problem, too. I can put a Helios Marathon in a backpack and wear it while I play table tennis (Or I could before COVID closed our Rec Centers), walk in the gym and do half an hour’s weights, and still have enough O left for the rest of the day
IMPORTANT If you are on Medicare, after an initial period (maybe 3 months -CHECK!!) you are locked in for a total 5 years with whatever you have accepted from your supplier. (unless you can talk them into changing – and don’t count on that.) I don’t know if this is true for Insurance companies – ask.
POC s are wonderful if you can use them. Medicare will provide one free for travel within the 50 states but you must rent or buy one for international travel. You must get clearance from the airline which you can do by going to the airline’s web page. The variation is enormous. Delta is simple and uses a 3rd party to OK it. Virgin Atlantic so complicated that you should look it up yourself. Even if there is a 110 socket on the plane it will not allow you to run a POC because of current limitations. FAA requires you to carry 150% of the battery capacity required for the flights. If you have to change flights it is an advantage to have some waiting time so that you can recharge all your batteries full.
Although you can plug POCs into the lighter socket in your car, you may not be able to run the POC, again because of insufficient current. I have read of people getting their car’s electrics modified to run POCs but it’s not cheap. Usually you can recharge the battery though not at the same time that you use the POC. These are not limitations of the POC but of the car’s electrical system.
As people have said elsewhere in this thread, never, ever believe salesmen who tell you that the 6 pulse settings on a POC correspond to Liters/min. They do not. Always read the owner’s manual before parting with any $. See if you can use them for a trial period, checking yourself with an oximeter.
POCs are often for sale on EBay and Craigs List and here is the problem with these. Too much usage is NOT usually the problem. That is very easy to check at the the push of a button or 2. A technician for one of the manufacturers told me to beware of POCs that have stood idle for a long time. The chemicals in the towers (zeolite) that remove the nitrogen, pack down and the towers cease working. You can replace them but again it is not cheap and your life may depend on this. She suggested running it continuously (on the mains, obviously) for at least 24 hours or, preferably 48 hours to see that it’s reliable. BTW if you buy POC batteries on Ebay, the machine manufacturer can tell you how old they are if you have the serial number, though I’ve never found the batteries to be a problem.
I’ve probably forgotten something, but I hope this is helpful for new patients. I am almost at the end of 5 years, my supplier has been taken over, and I’m getting anxious. OTOH I didn’t expect to be here when I when I went on oxygen 5 years ago, so never say die.
Happy Thanksgiving to all.
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@warlock
Thanks so much for taking the time to write all of this out, I have no doubt it will be helpful for new patients and those seeking more information on oxygen options. We’re so appreciative!
Happy Thanksgiving to you as well.
Sincerely,
Char. -
Thanks Bill. That’s very helpful!
John R.
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I might have missed this on the thread, but one very helpful accessory for the Respironics Simply Go Mini concentrator is a backpack for use instead of the usual side strap. The backpack distributes the weight evenly when you are walking, and has mesh at the bottom to allow for air flow. If you are still active in walking, etc. it is a godsend.
We are in Canada where the backpack is not easy to find, but we eventually made contact with the company in the U.S. and they shipped it to us. We had to pay for it, and it is not cheap (I think around U.S. $150 but that was a few years ago). But well worth the cost – I use it daily, and it has been especially good for travel.
Ron
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@ron-reid ,
Hello my friend,
I completely agree with you re: the backpack and the Respironics Simply Go Mini Machine! I have both the regular SimplyGo and the mini and love the backpack that comes with the latter. I also love a backpack I found on Amazon for the small, D-sized tanks. It’s very comfortable for just short outings with a canister of 02. Thanks for sharing your experience with this, it’s so helpful to ascertain what works best for IPF based on other patient experiences.
Take good care,
Char.
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Ron,
You are right about a backpack making things easier. When I had a truly portable concentrator I bought a mesh backpack in Walmart for $4 and it worked well. The problem with a non mesh backpack is how do you exhaust the nitrogen? Well, before I found the mesh BP on sale I had a cheap fabric BP and cut a hole to fit the concentrator exhaust. If the back pack is a bit big so that the POC moves about, wedge it with foam rubber or expanded polystyrene. It will work ok. My problem was that the POC simply would not – and could not – produce enough O, hence my migration to LOX.
Best wishes,
Bill
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I can speak to what I know. I had Inogen and It was very nice. however, the highest flow rate was only 6-8 liters and I needed 10. So it did not meet my needs. The unit only weighed 6 lbs very light and with extra battery packs and a car charger you are good to go! So yes if you only need 6-8 liters that is the one you want, also it is covered by medicare to buy or rent! Good luck.
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@rammbo
Douglas,
I just went on line to Inogen and saw their portable concentrator only goes up to 5 liters .like the other portable concentrators. Please let me know the model # for your machine so I can find any still available.
thanks,
anne
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I very strongly advise anyone buying a portable oxygen concentrator to get the capacity in writing before parting with your money. It should say in litres/min continuous or pulse what the machine output is. It should also say what the max bolus (puff of oxygen) is at each setting. Manufacturer’s User Manuals will have a table showing this. You can find most of them on the net for free.
Ask if they will give you a free trial and then check your O2 levels with your oximeter or better still, with your pulmonologist’s.
If a company sells you machine that they claim is portable and produces 8L/min you are very likely to get an expensive paper weight.
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@rammbo , @warlock
I cant find a company to sell the 8L/min portable. Do you know of any?
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This is what I would do. Call Oxygen to Go and ask them what portable has the highest CONTINUOUS output. They are in the business of renting portables and batteries for travel – not selling them. They actually OK you for travel on Delta and Virgin and maybe others. They WILL know what is available for sure. It’s definitely worth asking them.
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This is information that I’ve collected and tabulated myself doing web searches. I have IPF and use supplemental O2, up to 8 liters per minute (lpm) for more than leisurely activities. I am also and engineer and am working with a group at Johns Hopkins to develop more effective supplemental oxygen systems.
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NOTE: PULSE settings CANNOT be directly equated to continuous liter per minute settings. It’s more complicated than that. A simplified example…
If your system is continuously delivering you O2 at a rate of one lpm into your cannula and you are inhaling half the time and exhaling the other half, then one half of the O2 is being wasted because you are exhaling against it while its being delivered. However, if your delivery system could, instead, squeeze all of its one lpm capability into/during the time you are inhaling, you are getting twice as much O2, effectively two lpm during inhale when you need and can use it. This is what pulse modes are intended to do.
That was a simplified example. It is more complicated than that. Typically you are not inhaling half the time. Also, towards the end of your inhale cycle, some of the O2 is not in your lungs long enough for effective transfer to your blood and some of it never makes it past your upper airways before it is exhaled out and thus wasted. Systems that deliver more of their O2 early in the inhale cycle can provide for higher, effective delivery rates to the patient.
In my view, a POC at its highest pulse mode setting can, AT BEST, only provide you, in effect, with up to three times its continuous flow rating. Most will fall well short of that.
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