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    • #17923

      As many of you have seen, the laser therapy forum topics have been very popular since being started earlier this year. They have hosted multiple discussions, questions from members all over the world and even some debate over whether or not this alternative therapy is effective.

      Recently some members of the forum including @drandyhall, @steve-dragoo, @let666 and @tmoriarty and I have been discussing how we can capture the results people are reporting on the forums, as a tangible documentation to the benefits folks are finding from laser therapy. Please note: we are not endorsing this treatment; we are holding you capable as an adult to research and investigate on your own whether or not laser therapy is right for you. If you don’t choose to try it, that is up to you and if you do, that is okay too. I have not started this forum thread to debate laser therapy, or for others to issue any negative comments for those who do/do not try laser. Please be respectful when discussing laser therapy on our new forum thread entitled: Laser Therapy Results.

      This is the intention behind the new forum topic thread: “We would like to hear how you have done with laser therapy.  Please report after the 5th, 10th, and 20th treatments.  Please report changes in your resting oxygen levels, any change with a 6 minute walk test or other objective test, changes in supplemental oxygen use, and any changes in your quality of life”. 

      Please also note that adding your results to this topic thread is not private information (meaning it is on a website). Your results will not be used in any way, and if in future any results are wanting to be taken offline to be compiled into a document collecting laser therapy results (as an example), you will always be asked first for your permission. BioNews does not use, collect or store any information other than what members voluntarily add to this website.

      We look forward to having one spot on this site to compile the results of laser therapy and we hope it is informative and helpful for others too.

      Charlene.

    • #17984
      Michael Lamkin
      Participant

      Great idea Charlene. I’d be really interested in seeing the results whether they be favorable or otherwise. It would be great to find a meaningful treatment without the use of drugs which I personally despise

      Have a great day!

      • #18011

        Hi Michael,

        Thanks for writing! I completely agree with you, it would be nice to find an effective solution to manage the IPF-related symptoms that do not include drugs. I can’t provide any personal experience with laser of course, but know others speak highly about it so I thought if we could capture some of their experiences, along with quantitative gains here, it might help others make an informed decision about laser – should they choose to look into it. I’m grateful to everyone willing to share their experiences here; it is a special group of people wanting to help others in this forums community. Take care, and thanks again for writing 🙂
        Charlene.

    • #18004
      john styles
      Participant

      I have done 25 laser treatments, started with a treatment on Jan 17 then did next two weeks at 3 x a week and then 4 weeks a twice a week and then next two weeks at three times a week and last two weeks at twice a week and now scheduled for once a week. Results of a followup lung function test showed improvement. Saturation’s improved 2 points and energy has improved. I am walking 1  1/2 miles a day.  2  1/2 years ago I was  diagnosed  with usual interstitial  pneumonia.  Encouraging seeing improvement.

      • #18012

        Hi John,

        So great to hear from you – I’d been wondering what you’ve been up to lately! Thanks for connecting back and letting us know how the laser is going for you. I would suspect even energy levels improving you’d consider a bonus? I certainly would so I am glad to hear that. Kudos to you for walking each day, and happy to hear your function test showed improvement too! We’re looking at capturing these results for others considering laser – look what you’ve helped to create 🙂 Glad to hear from you and hope you continue to do so well!

        Charlene.

    • #18026
      Karen Frame
      Participant

      Hello all.  I am not sure if I am doing this correctly but here goes.

      i have completed 8 sessions of laser therapy and have felt a difference in several areas. First, I definitely have more energy and my mood is better.  I walk at the mall a couple times a week.  I have been stopping every 5 min to bring my oxygen back up before continuing for another 5.  My O2 was dropping to mid 60’s and taking about 2+ min to recover to 94, I was using my POC at level 5.  I would make the mile in 6 intervals. Last time I was a able to do the mile in 5 intervals and my 02 mostly dropped to 70 and my recovery was about a min.  At home I use a glider, started at 12 min on level 5, and my O2 would drop to high 60s after that time.  Recovery was also slow.  So my improvement here has been pretty dramatic as I now go for 16 min on level 4 and my O2 just dropped to 87 and was up to 92 in less than a minute.  I have to add that I have been on a strict anti inflammatory diet as well which means no dairy, soy,grains, legumes, or fruit other than berries, so most vegetables (but not all),a small amount of good protein and berries.  I will eventually be able to add some things back in.  Hope this wasn’t too much information.  Good luck to everyone and keep on keepin’ on!

      Thank you Charlene for making this information available to us all .  YOU are an angel!  And thanks to Dr. Hall for giving us something we can actually do to help ourselves.  Bless you

       

       

       

    • #18030

      Hi Karen,

      You absolutely posted correctly, thank you for sharing your experience and results of the laser therapy! I am really glad you’re getting some positive results, and feeling better. A lot of people have noticed an improvement in their moods I’ve read, and I would consider that an equally important bonus as this can be what is so difficult for many of us living with IPF. Really glad to hear some of the quantitative results as well, this is truly wonderful news for you. Do keep us posted on your continued progress if you wouldn’t mind 🙂

      Take care and thank you for your kind words, they started my Saturday off on a wonderful note. I am just so thankful to be part of such a wonderful online community.

      Wishing you well,
      Charlene.

    • #18033
      Kristina grilo
      Participant

      I’ve been doing the laser treatment, I’m on number 16. When I first started, my 02 was 94, now I’m at 96, 98. I have not done a PFT because I dont have health insurance and the test is 700 dollars, I will do one if needed but for now I don’t see the reason. I do have the CT scan that was used to diagnose my IPF, will do another one in a few months to compare. The laser therapy is most definatly working, I feel way better than just 2 months ago when I was diagnosed. I’m going to continue with the laser and hope that a cure will happen soon…

    • #18034

      Good Morning Kristina,

      Thank you so much for sharing your experience with us, and I am thrilled to hear that you feel laser therapy is working for you. I am finding myself a bit in disbelief that so many people are finding this beneficial, and glad to see some of it captured here for others who might be considering it. Wishing you nothing but the best and thank you for sharing your experience with us. Please feel free to write any time 🙂
      Charlene.

    • #18350
      george connell
      Participant

      I am about to begin a laser treatment program.  Is there a protocol or number of treatments per week/months?

       

      Thanks, George C

      • #18351
        Peter Goodwin
        Participant

        Hi George

        According to Dr Hall the current protocol is:

        10 watts, continuous wave. 5 minutes on front of chest, 5 minutes back of chest both with an intercostal application. 3x per week for 4 weeks, then twice per week for 4 weeks then once per week thereafter.

        Good luck.

        • #18356
          Steve Dragoo
          Participant

          @georgeconnell

          Hi George – reach out to Andy and also see his protocol on his website.  The total joules is important too.  The k-laser my doctor uses does not have manual settings so we modified the time to ensure I got enough joules.  It also modulates not continuous and that may be better or at least equal to continuous because modulation puts out different light.  Success on your treatments. -Steve

    • #18355
      Peter Goodwin
      Participant

      Just a quick update. I try to take short walks daily but last weekend I decided to start timing my walks over a specific distance. I figured this would show progress, good or bad, over time.

      So, seven walks in all. Only a short distance. My time on 5 of the walks was within 10 seconds of 7 mins 30 secs. On the two other days I had my Laser therapy and took the walk when I got back – and those times were 7 mins 1 second and 6 minutes 41 seconds. A truly remarkable difference on the Laser days.

      • #18443

        Hi Peter,

        Thank you for getting in touch and sharing this update on your walking times following laser therapy. The improvement noted is great, way to go! This will help others see a tangible difference that laser seems to be making for so many people. I haven’t tried it yet, but hope all the results on this thread (in whatever capacity they’re captured) helps people make an informed decision about whether or not laser therapy might be helpful for them. Thanks for contributing to that Peter!

        Regards,
        Charlene.

    • #18731
      Terry Moriarty
      Participant

      Has anyone using laser therapy seen improvement in their PFT DLCO percentage?

      I’ve been waiting on making the decision on laser therapy because I started a medically supervised weightloss program in October. I wanted to see if there were improvements from that before starting something else. I’ve lost 50 lbs. so far and have seen lots of improvements. Lower lpms, walking farther, gone from wheelchair back to walker. FVC, FEV1 and TLC improved. But DLCO remained unchanged at 19%.

      Thus my interest in knowing about laser therapy’s impact on DLCO.
      Thanks.

    • #18732
      Steve Dragoo
      Participant

      @tmoriarty

      Hey Terry,

      That’s terrific on the weight loss. Did yo9u do any autophagy (random fasting at least 16 hours)? I am losing weight too as it is the single easiest most can do for improvement in endurance and even strength.

      Kindly explain your lpms and DLCO acronyms.  – New to me… Steve

       

    • #18735
      Tom Dowell
      Participant

      I changed to a chiro that has the lastest 20w Klaser from one that had the 10w Klaser. It has a built in lung protocol. I have had 4 treatments with the 20w and have seen improvement over the old one. My cough is about gone. Has anyone else ussd the newer Klaser?

      • #18741
        Terry Moriarty
        Participant

        DLCO = carbon monoxide diffusing capacity. It is a measure of oxygen/ carbon monoxide exchange through the lung walls. My score of 19% is considered to be extremely low.

        LPMs = liters per minutes for oxygen. I’ve been on oxygen for 7 years. My prescription is now 6 lpms, however, at my last 6 minute walk I used my portable oxygen concentrator at 6 pulses per minute or about 3.6 lpms. That’s an excellent improvement.

        The diet is a very low calorie ketogenic diet. under 1000 calories/day. must be medically monitored. I was already obese and had gained over 100 lbs when on prednisone from 2011 to 2014. I managed to lose 70 lbs on my own. Took 4 years. Then I plateaued. Started this diet last October and have lost 50 lbs so far. This is working for me and fairly easy to keep up with.

        I was showing all the signs of endstage ILD, including difficulty eating. It could take me 2 hours to eat a chicken caesar salad. I was totally out of breathe. When my FVC dropped from 45% to 30% and DLCO from 25% to 19%, I knew I had to do something. All my doctors said lose weight.  My FVC is back up to 40% and I’m walking more. So I’m sticking with this program.

        • This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by Charlene Marshall. Reason: formatting
        • #18743

          Thanks for breaking down the commonly-used acronyms Terry! I know this will be really helpful for folks new t the forum, or even those pondering our regular use of them. Appreciate your sharing about where you are in relation to these measurements/tests as well. 🙂

          Take care,
          Charlene.

    • #18737
      Steve Dragoo
      Participant

      @tomdowell

      Hi Tom,

      The treatment I get is with a preprogrammed format and we use the Thoracic program – which modulates the NM, at 12 watts, and about 11000 joules.

      My lung situation is more complicated as the last CT scan last week showed several cysts, sometimes they cause a cough. Also, have an enlarged lymph node that the doctors are discussing what to do if anything.

      The cough diminished a lot but mostly from serrapeptase before I started the laser, however as the cysts grow the cough will most likely increase.

      Hope that helps you,

      Steve

      • #18862
        Lorraine
        Participant

        @steve-dragoo:

        Are your doctors ok with you having laser treatment, given that you have several cysts and enlarged lymph node?

        The reason I ask is because  because I Googled: Low-Level Laser Therapy contraindications and read ”Do not laser potentially cancerous lesions—LLLT can stimulate proliferation of existing cancer cells.”

        My concern is that I have nodules on my lungs, most likely benign, and a newer larger one, prior to laser treatments. Dr. Hall looked at my last two CT scans and did not think the treatment would be harmful (to the nodules), instead he thinks the treatment will help.

        That said I am just wondering about your CT scan results since having laser treatments, better, worse, stable?

        Thank you.

    • #18758
      Andrew Hall DC
      Participant

      I just got my results from my last PFT done on 4/10/19.  I am still better than when I had my first one on 8/26/14.  I am not on Ofev or Esbriet, gave up the inhaler as I found it was doing more harm than good, especially as far as the cough goes.  Still using laser once per week.

      8/26/14   FVC 3.35   FEV 246   FEV1/FVC% 69

      4/10/19   FVC 4.34   FEV 3.03  FEV1/FVC% 70

      Andy

       

      • #18822
        Peter Goodwin
        Participant

        Hi @drandyhall,

        Excellent news on your PLT’s, gives further confidence to those contemplating Laser therapy.

        6 or 7 weeks ago you posted on facebook on K Lasers progress with a ‘science based’ protocol for lung diseases. Are they any nearer to establishing a consensus on what works best?

        Regards

        Peter

         

        • #18850
          Andrew Hall DC
          Participant

          Hi Peter,

          Dang, we are SO close, but it has been painfully slow for me working with doctors spread out all over.  One of them has had some serious health issues that has put things on hold.  I truly hope it is complete very soon. I will let everyone know as soon as it’s done.

          Andy

      • #18864
        Steve Dragoo
        Participant

        @lorraine

        Hi Lorraine – no she does not know and I saw that study before I first started the laser.  Enlarged lymph could mean a number of different issues or none.  I have had a slightly above average WBC for many years and often wondered if my body was battling something that had not been uncovered.

        The reading on the CT scans is that the cysts and fibrosis are stable. Lymph may be an issue. I sent the reports to the laser doctor and we will talk about them Tuesday.

        I need more information from the pulmonologist about the lymph and what they want to do so that could change my thinking about the laser. I could also do fewer laser treatments.

        Thanks for mentioning this.

        Steve

         

        • #18865
          Lorraine
          Participant

          @steve-dragoo:

          Glad to hear the CT scan results are stable. I hope you continue to get good news and the talk on Tuesday goes in your favor. Sending positive vibes.

          Lorraine

        • #18866
          Lorraine
          Participant

          @steve-dragoo: https://www.coldlasers.org/therapy/contraindications/

        • #18882
          Lorraine
          Participant

          @steve-dragoo! Thanks Steve for your insight and comments concerning the link I posted regarding low level laser therapy contraindications. You put me at ease.

    • #18771

      Hi @drandyhall,

      Thank you so much for sharing some quantitative data with us regarding your PFTs! So glad you’re doing better on this recent test, compared to the first one in 2014. Even to have our PFTs maintained over a few years; I’d consider this a win. Thanks again for sharing!

      Just curious, as everyone seems to have a difference experience with inhalers… which ones were you prescribed? I have been on Symbicort (but I can’t take a deep enough breath in to use a turbuhaler anymore) and now Sprivia and sometimes ventolin as a “rescue” inhaler. Undecided how effective these are for me at the moment. Curious to hear your experience!

      Warm regards,
      Charlene.

      • #18782
        Andrew Hall DC
        Participant

        Hi Charlene,

        Yes, I think I’m really winning this battle with IPF.   The PFT’s are still better than when I was first diagnosed, and my resting O2 continues at 97.  So much for the pulmonologist’s prognosis that I would be on O2 by now.

        I was on Symbicort, but the thing is that every time I used it I would end up with coughing fits for quite a while afterwards.  My doctor changed it to Bevespi (sp?) and the same thing happened.  I thought that this can’t be healthy, besides my skin has become fragile from it and I think it’s making my hair falling out faster.   Also, during the PFT, they would do a pre tx test and a post tx test, and I was worse after using the inhaler, though I know it wasn’t Symbicort, I found that not only subjectively was I not as good, but objectively as well.  I just seem to do better without an inhaler at all.  I was given a rescue inhaler on diagnosis, but have only really used it once when the smoke from the nearby forest fire was making it tough on my lungs.

        • #18809

          Really happy to hear this Andy! I, too, am happy that the pulmonologist’s prognosis of when you’d require supplemental oxygen was wrong. Kudos to you in all the work you’ve been doing to maintain your stamina, and PFTs despite having IPF.

          Interesting to hear about your experience with inhalers as well, thanks for sharing that. Yes, the Symbicort made me cough drastically after using it as well, but I think it was more the deep inhalation vs. the actual medication I was taking in. I can’t be certain of that though. The Sprivia is much easier to consume, although I’m not sure whether it is effective or not yet, I don’t seem to have any side effects from it so I am taking it as prescribed. Glad you’re managing well without them so far – I suppose the less medications/steroids in our system, the better overall, right? Enjoy your weekend! I hope your weather is starting to get nicer there. While our temps are very slowly warming up, we’ve seen incredible amounts of rain fall and some areas of the province have declared a state of Emergency due to rising waters/flooding. Sad what is happening to our earth…

          Take good care,
          Charlene.

      • #18881
        Steve Dragoo
        Participant

        @lorraine – you sent me this and it is the reference I was speaking about earlier. – Steve

    • #18806
      David Swain
      Participant

      Hello everyone. I’ve been really interested in reading the posts from all who have experienced an improvement due to Laser Therapy.

      I started K Laser on 23 March and have had 10 treatments so far. I had high hopes of a similar improvement. Sadly, however, if I’m honest with myself, I haven’t noticed any significant change. The only measurable one is my resting O2, which is the same at 96%.

      I’m struggling to find something else I can measure in a meaningful way. This is possibly because, I’m in early stage and have little difficulty with gym workouts or walking for 6 mins, although my O2 often goes down to below 80% while doing these. Maybe walking uphill is a little easier, but again this is very subjective and varies from day to day anyway. I intend to continue with the laser until my next PFT tests in August, when I will have meaningful figures to compare.

      David

       

       

       

      • #18810

        Hi David,

        Thanks for sharing your experience with Laser Therapy. We know it may not be for everyone, realistically, but I am glad you’re going to continue trying if you feel it might benefit you or give you some data to compare against come August. I wonder if @drandyhall might have any additional suggestions to optimize the laser and see some measurable differences? I’ve tagged him here just in case, but no pressure either Andy! I see Steve replied as well regarding the protocol, something possible to consider as well. Thanks again for writing and I hope this note finds you doing well others 🙂

        Cheers,
        Charlene.

      • #18815
        Andrew Hall DC
        Participant

        Hi David,

        Your resting O2 is really pretty darned good, and you may not see it come up, maybe just a point or so.  Because you are starting laser early in the disease, you might not see a whole lot of positive change.  I started right after diagnosis and had some decrease in the cough, but like you I was still very physical and I maintained that.  My O2 levels were at 97 and that is pretty much where it is now.  Where I saw the big change was with the PFT’s.  As you can see be my post above, 4 3/4 years later my PFT is still better than my first one.  I still have the cough, just not nearly as bad as it was, and I need to take my time hiking uphill esp at higher elevations.

        Your 6 minute walk test is still a good way to monitor your progress.  You may find that the O2 levels don’t fall as low as you continue with laser.  Again, I think that the main thing is that your disease does not progress.  If you can just arrest or even slow the progression you are way ahead of the game.

      • #18863
        Lorraine
        Participant

        @davidaswain: I have not noticed any significant changes on my end either and we seem to be on similar tracks. I expect to have a CT scan next month and hope the treatments have slowed down the disease progression. Best wishes, Lorraine

    • #18807
      Steve Dragoo
      Participant

      @davidaswain

      Hi David,

      Have you confirmed the laser doctor is doing the correct protocol and amount of time each side?

      When I started the laser the end of January we were using the wrong protocol the first 3 treatments.  Since then I have had 18 treatments and increased endurance with O2 generally holding. There are good days and not so good days but I also do a lot more than the laser. So please ask as I don’t want to bombard with unuseful information.

      The doctor did 2 recent CT scans, one mid-January the other mid-April and the disease is holding.  She did them this close because I pushed far too hard the last 6-minute walk test and O2 dipped to 85 for a nano-second and she knows I am going on a very long flight soon.  My situation is a little complicated because I have several cysts and enlarged lymph node in the left lung which does affect me sometimes. So it is difficult to say exactly how much the laser is helping.  Sent the laser doctor all 3 CT scans from the past year so I will find out his opinion Tuesday when I go there again. I have decided to stay at 2 laser treatments per week until I leave.

      Best to you,

      Steve

    • #18816
      David Swain
      Participant

      Hi Charlene, Andy and Steve. @charlene

      Thanks for your encouraging messages. I forgot to say that initially I had some decrease in my cough, but that seems to have returned, although there is little phlegm and it isn’t too bad.

      I too, do a load of other stuff. Notably exercise (4miles a day, 10,000 steps, gym), serrapeptase and mitochondrial repair (Carnesine and Cq10), antioxidants etc.

      My pulmonologist here in UK is reluctant to do CT scans due to the high radiation dose but he plans another X-ray when I see him in August. I’ve not had an official 6 min walk test, so can one of you tell me how I should be measuring? Is it distance, steps, O2 level during or at end?? I can do 750 steps in 6 mins but my O2 will be down sometimes below 80. Although this doesn’t make me feel particularly breathless and I’m not on oxygen.

      Andy. You previously confirmed that my treatment dose was OK. – 10watts average, 20w peak, phase time 45secs, 660, 800, 905, 970nm, 4 mins each lung, each side (16 mins total). Do you suggest any changes in this, please?

      Go safely On your flight Steve. All the best David

    • #18817
      Steve Dragoo
      Participant

      @davidaswain

      Hi David – that’s good stuff you are doing. Yes, I was surprised when the doctor did 2 scans 3 months apart.

      The 6-minute walk test is a control for distance and time and maybe some elevation. Then sit and look at O2/HR, 85 is a red line for O2, rapid pulse may be an indicator of PH. I was not too concerned over the last one when it dipped to 85 for less than 2 seconds because I know how hard I had worked the previous few days and I pushed the test where I walked about 100 meters farther than before.

      My harsh cough has improved significantly from the laser and as you know mucus is greatly diminished by the serrapeptase. A big surprise from the serra is most of the capillary varicose veins on my feet are gone. To help my heart I also take nattokinase.

      Regards my flight, this will be my fourth trip to the Philippines and I get great energy from going home after a 14-month absence… Steve

    • #18856
      john styles
      Participant

      I thought I would update my treatments, with Lorraine making me aware of the acupuncture points I added the acupuncture points to my treatment 3 weeks ago. I take a pulse oximiter with me and the last two treatments I was 91 or 92 prior to treatment but after the acupuncture points were done for about 3 minutes I was 98.  The acupuncture points are on the Egyptian study and the laser needs to be reduced to 1 watt.

      • #18857
        Andrew Hall DC
        Participant

        Wow John,  that is VERY impressive!  After 3 minutes your O2 was up to 98, how long did it stay that high?

    • #18858
      john styles
      Participant

      Hi Andy,  not very long about 3 minutes, then instead of 91 or 92  it goes down to 94 and stays at 94 for about 10 minutes but thru the day it bounces back up to 93 or 94 but impressive to see.  I have done this two consecutive weeks, we have tried 3 watts but it is to hot. I am still doing 12 minutes with 3 minutes over each lung at 9 watts then the acupuncture points at one watt with a narrow head on the laser.

       

    • #18859
      Kate E
      Participant

      @johnstyles  @drandyhall

      John, you referred to acupuncture points being in an Egyptian study. Can you tell me how to get to that?

      thanks,

      Kate

    • #18860
      Steve Dragoo
      Participant

      @caneelbay1

      Hi John,

      That’s good news for you and I hope you find ways to keep O2 up after the treatment.  One thing I do is really surprising me – workouts at the gym.  I try not to overdo it but also make sure I do enough. So at first, I am a little tired but then my energy increases and my O2 stays a point or 2 higher consistently.

      I am certain serrapeptase, nattokinase, B complex, and laser help the O2 maintain a little better too.

      Steve

    • #18867
      john styles
      Participant

      Here is the link to the Egyptian study.

      http://www.ejbronchology.eg.net/article.asp?issn=1687-8426;year=2018;volume=12;issue=3;spage=317;epage=322;aulast=Sayed

      • #18884
        Kate E
        Participant

        @johnstyles

        Thank you for the link to the Egyptian study!

        Kate

    • #18947
      Ron Johnson
      Participant

      @drandyhall

      I have completed over 48 treatments of laser therapy. Below are the numbers for my two most recent PFTs, one before starting the laser and one after. I am also taking OFEV (100 mg), and multiple supplements for nausea control (successful).

      FEV1 % Pred    DLCO % Pred       FVC % Pred

      January 9, 2019                                             58.9                    38.1                        49.0

      April 30, 2019                                                58.6                    39.4                       50.6

      Volume is considered Moderate, while Diffusion is considered Severe. This report is considered Stable, which is great news in the world of IPF.

      I believe the laser is helping, but I am also doing physical therapy, massage therapy, exercise, and taking supplements for general health. There is no way to tell what is helping and how much in specific numbers, but I plan to continue all of these therapies moving forward. Subjectively, I believe I feel better, with a little more energy and more good days than bad compared to first of this year. However, I think we all recognize the emotional component of this disease, which has a dramatic effect on the physical. Navigating the balance of how much to do when feeling good and how much not to do when feeling bad is an ongoing learning process. Your comments on this forum have helped. We all appreciate those who brought forward the opportunity for laser therapy.

      I look forward to Dr. Andrew Hall’s @drandyhall new protocol when it is complete. Questions for Dr. Hall: Will the size of the laser spot (or laser head size) be included for energy density reasons and will the sweep rate across the skin be included? I have had three different technicians apply the laser as well as two different lasers, and they all use a different approach. The threshold of pain (too much heat) is a little hard use as a guide. Also, it would be good to include protocols for both Class 4 lasers, the K-laser and the Lightforce laser if possible. As an aside, my physical therapist asked why the laser power of 10 watts was so low compared to the normal 25 watts used for muscular or joint therapy using the laser? My guess is its the energy density that varies with the type of laser head being used…? Of course, the sweep rate and energy density are directly related. Thank you Dr. Hall for your dedication to helping others with this challenging disease.

      God bless all of you as you continue this journey to maximum health and a positive outlook on life.    Ron

      • #18958
        Andrew Hall DC
        Participant

        Hi Ron,

        I would have been nice to see more dramatic changes in your numbers, but as you said, in the world of IPF stable is good.  And the good thing is that even though not dramatic we do see improved numbers.

        I will be in touch with the doctors today in regards to the protocol. One of them has been dealing with some serious health issues that has put things on hold. I can tell you that the protocol will be different for K-laser and Litecure lasers as you can’t get real specific with the modulation with a Litecure as you can with a K-laser. Yes, the spot size makes a difference, but the speed of the application doesn’t make a big difference unless it’s too slow as we don’t want to overheat the tissues.  10 watts is a recommended minimum, but it would be fine to use 25 watts.  The time of treatment will be reduced at 25 watts as more joules are produced at higher wattage.

        Anyway, happy you are feeling better and that your numbers are stable!  I think that all of the things you are doing are working well for you……..

        Andy

    • #18949

      Hi Ron ( @ronjohnson ),

      Thanks so much for sharing these results so thoroughly and the experience of how you’re feeling as well. I know Dr. Hall will get in touch with you as soon as he is able to!

      In the beginning of your post you mentioned supplements you’re taking for successful nausea control… may I ask what those are? I am always interested in learning more about this as I struggle quite a bit with nausea, and now dizziness too. Curious to hear when you have a moment 🙂

      Thanks again for writing.
      Charlene.

    • #18954
      Ron Johnson
      Participant

      @charlenemarshall,

      Charlene,
      I started taking Essentialzymes 4 from Young Living when I was on Ofev 150 mg. It helped but not enough. I then moved to Ofev 100 mg which helped a lot more. I still had residual nausea at a very low level but still too much. My wife suggested Allerzyme which is another YL product. Both of these enzymes help the pancreas. My pulmonologist said as we age the pancreas looses some of its effectiveness. I also take a probiotic called Life 9, but was taking that all along. The constant nausea is very debilitating taking away energy. Hope this helps.

      Ron

      • This reply was modified 1 year, 4 months ago by Charlene Marshall. Reason: formatting
    • #18955
      Ron Johnson
      Participant

      @charlenemarshall

      Opps. Sorry, I did a copy /paste.

      I did want to add that my nausea is now gone.

      • #18965

        Thanks so much for sharing Ron!
        My cousin is YL consultant, maybe I’ll speak with her about options and I know doTerra has some good options as well to help with nausea. Good ideas. Glad your nausea is gone, and no worries about copying/pasting; I corrected the formatting issue 🙂

        Cheers,
        Charlene.

    • #18957
      Steve Dragoo
      Participant

      @ronjohnson

      Hi Ron,

      A couple of things that have helped my energy a lot are D3 with K2m7 and a good B complex.  Let me know if you want more info. – Steve

    • #19138
      Ron Johnson
      Participant

      Update to laser therapy results: @drandyhall

      Here are the actual numbers from my last two PFTs, before and after laser therapy to give a more accurate view:

      FVC           FEV1           DLCO

      1/9/19             1.97           1.73              9.46

      4/30/19         2.04          1.72              9.80

      These numbers indicate some improvement, but generally stable. As I said earlier, I do feel better fro multiple reasons.

      Best, Ron

      • #19158
        Andrew Hall DC
        Participant

        Hi Ron,

        Yes, stable is good……..   How often do you have a PFT?  These look to be about 4 months apart.  When will you have the next one?  So please to hear you are feeling better, no matter what the reasons!

        Andy

    • #19149

      Thank you for sharing these with us Ron! I am sure Andy ( @drandyhall ) will be glad you shared them as well 🙂
      Cheers,
      Charlene.

    • #19177
      Ron Johnson
      Participant

      @drandyhall @steve-dragoo

      Dr. Hall, PFTs are quarterly.

      Steve, your prayers are much appreciated. God bless.

    • #20600
      Linda Williams
      Participant

      For any or all of you: Does insurance pay for laser treatment and the different types of therapy you are receiving? You get laser at chiropractor office, correct?  Do you report ALL the supplements you take to a General Practitioner, pulmonologist, cardiologist, etc?  It seems to me they each wonder why I am on so many. Because of a high calcium level I have been taken off my regular multivit and calcium. I was on 4000 iu of D3 as ordered by previous GP for arthritic hand/finger problems. My new GP after I moved wanted me to go down to 1,000 iu so I tried it and finger problems got worse with bending & only way to get straightened is to take other hand and do so.   At that point I did not know D3 also good for IPF.  So I went back to taking 2000 iu and told her when I saw her again.  She said D3 helps calcium to absorb so that is why she wanted me off it.  I will tell her IPF patients often get a Vit D deficiency when I see her again.  Also I was wondering how each of you keep track of your O2 sats throughout the day? I have an oximeter but have been looking for a decent operating pedometer watch with O2 sat or even just a bracelet. Had one watch so far that I returned as always gave me 99% O2 when on oximeter I have never been over 96% and as low as 90%.  The pedometer at least doubled my steps if not more.  Any suggestions?  Thank you for any answers.  Linda Williams

      • #20626
        Andrew Hall DC
        Participant

        Hi Linda,

        I can tell you that Medicare does not pay for laser.  Some private insurance companies do pay, but generally just a small portion, at least here in Calif.  The best thing to do is to have your doctor’s staff do some checking on it for you.

    • #20606

      Hi Linda,

      Great questions! I am hoping @drandyhall may be able to help answer some of your questions here, or maybe @marshaharris? Both are experienced in using laser therapy and may be able to help better than I can regarding insurance covering it and the payment process as Canadian healthcare is very different. Hopefully they can help 🙂

      Kind regards,
      Charlene.

    • #20607
      Linda Williams
      Participant

      Charlene. I live in Ohio. Linda Williams

      • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Charlene Marshall. Reason: formatting
    • #20628
      Linda Williams
      Participant

      @drrandyhall, thank you for your information. I did not think Medicare would pay for laser tx’s. I guess my question is why not????? As for secondary private pay it has told me on other things that it only pays its 20% on items approved by Medicare. 
      Linda Williams

      • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Charlene Marshall. Reason: formatting
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